How Perovskite Technology is Reshaping the Solar Industry with Scott Graybeal | EP223

In this episode of the Clean Power Hour, Tim Montague sits down with Scott Graybeal, CEO of Caelux, to explore the exciting world of perovskite solar technology. Graybeal reveals how his company is on the cusp of revolutionizing the solar industry with their innovative perovskite-based coatings for traditional solar panels.

Graybeal dispels the myth that perovskite technology is still confined to laboratories, announcing that Caelux has already ramped up to 50 megawatts of production capacity in Los Angeles. He explains how their perovskite coating can boost the performance of existing crystalline silicon modules by 20-30% while reducing energy costs by about 20%. This breakthrough could have significant implications for both residential and utility-scale solar projects.

The conversation delves into the technical aspects of perovskite solar cells, addressing concerns about lifespan and the use of lead in the manufacturing process. Graybeal outlines Caelux's approach to sustainability, including their plans for cradle-to-grave traceability and recycling of materials.

Perhaps most strikingly, Graybeal shares a bold prediction from industry research: by 2040, more than 80% of all PV shipments are expected to incorporate perovskite technology. He emphasizes that the commercialization of perovskite solar panels is not a distant dream but a near-term reality, with Caelux aiming to bring products to market in early 2025.

Don't miss this fascinating glimpse into the future of solar energy and the potential for perovskite technology to reshape the industry landscape. Tune in to learn how Caelux is positioning itself at the forefront of this revolutionary shift in renewable energy.

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Scott Graybeal
Caelux

Transcript

Scott Graybeal: 0:38

So, if you've been producing these the right way, then they can be very complementary to existing technologies. And our view is that the on ramp for perovskites is much shorter than what people think because you can marry this with the crystalline silicon module. And that will boost the performance of that module by about 20 to 30%. And drop the cost of energy by about 20%.

intro: 1:01

Are you speeding the energy transition? Here at the Clean Power Hour, our hosts, Tim Montague and John Weaver bring you the best in solar batteries and clean technologies every week, I want to go deeper into decarbonisation. We do too, we're here to help you understand and command the commercial, residential and utility, solar, wind and storage industries. So let's get to it. Together, we can speed the energy transition.

Tim Montague: 1:29

Today on the Clean Power Hour, the next generation of solar panels, my guest today is Scott Graybeal. He is the CEO of a company called Caelux. And they are developing perovskite based coatings that will be integrated into traditional solar panels making the next generation of solar panel Welcome to the show, Scott.

Scott Graybeal: 1:48

Well, thank you, Tom, glad to be here.

Tim Montague: 1:51

Many of my audience know about perovskites as largely a laboratory, you know, r&d next generation technology. And it's been around since I think 2009. So it is maturing. And but but you and your and your team there at Caelux are really making a run at bringing it to market. So Scott, tell us a little bit about yourself first. And then let's get into what calyx is up to where you are, and where are you going.

Scott Graybeal: 2:23

I'm happy to do so. So I've been in solar for about 15 years, and started off in the turnkey capital equipment world for thin film silicone and migrated into the crystalline silicon world. And then I had the pleasure of running the energy business at a company called Flextronics, which was a large contract manufacturer, and that I ran the energy business there. And we grew that from about 300 million in revenue to about $2 billion in revenue over my seven years there, and did some fantastic acquisitions along the way, the biggest of which was next tracker, which is now the global leader and single axis tracking solutions. So it gave me some great insights on what it takes to scale new technologies in the solar space. And it's a it's a complex equation to solve. And it's a combination of strategy, product relationship, it's a mix of all of those things. And I think you highlighted it very, very well, I think it here in the United States, I would say a lot of folks are prejudiced by the concept that this is still a laboratory scale technology. And the reality is, well, we've ramped 50 megawatts of production capacity in Los Angeles. So that's not quite lab scale anymore. You know, that's demonstration scale. And there's plenty of proof points in China of companies that have shipped multiple megawatts of perovskite modules in the various stages of testing qualification in the project in harsh environments. And I think our paradigm needs to evolve here domestically, you know, we have to recognize that this is an emerging technology. This is an opportunity for the West to take another bite at the apple of PV because PV is not going away. In fact, it's becoming a larger, larger fraction of our overall energy mix. And we have the technology here domestically, to compete and win on an international scale with the right level of support. And so I think that with all that said, that pathway to commercialization is much shorter than everybody thinks. In fact, we're talking about commercialization in early 25. So that's just around the corner. And that includes all the little bumps in the road that you know, startups typically see in bringing new technologies to market, you'll generally see so, you know, we're very enthusiastic about this technology. And it's not something that you guys need to look at 2030 for, it's something you need to look at next year and say, Gee, I'm gonna buy perovskite modules for terminal modules in 2025.

Tim Montague: 4:49

I mean, ultimately, what we're doing with solar PV is bringing down the long term cost or the levelized cost of energy. And the Holy Grail is a penny a kilowatt hour, or $1 a megawatt hour, and that unleashes things like green hydrogen at scale. And, as you said, solar PV is going to be 50% of the grid by 2050. We're going to 10x the industry. It's not a question of if but how quickly and, and then, you know, there are two kind of major competing technologies crystallin and thin film we have a Native American company called for solar that makes thin film panels. They're really the only game in town for thin Film at scale. And they're making a run out of they're very popular with utility scale solar, they are more expensive for smaller scale for DG, and so you don't see thin film in DG. And then you have perovskites. And set the table for us. This is this is high tech, material science nanomaterials. What are perovskites? How do they work? How are they different? And how do they complement traditional crystal NPV?

Scott Graybeal: 6:07

Yeah, no problem. So I'm not a PhD physicist or material scientists. So my apologies in advance. So I'll bring it to my level. And that hopefully this works for the audience, too, I'm sure well, yeah, for us guides are really just a special class of synthetic nano materials, that when processed under the right conditions make very low cost and very powerful solar cells. And as you talked about, they were discovered in 2009, that perovskite is is a naturally occurring mineral. But it has nothing to do with that, it's just the crystal structure is the same. And that's why that they call these artificially synthetic materials perovskites, because they have the same crystal structure. Technically speaking, as, you know, this naturally occurring mineral profs guide. So if you're producing these the right way, then they can be very complementary to existing technologies. And our view is that the on ramp for perovskites is much shorter than what people think because you can marry this with the crystalline silicon module. And that will boost the performance of that module by about 20 to 30%. And drop the cost of energy by about 20%. And this is exciting, not just for folks in the resi space, or in the commercial space, but also the utility space. And this is where we see the most pole is actually in utility scale solar developers. And some of our investors are in that world. And so they look at this and say, Gee, when when can this possibly come out. And so we'll be launching a pilot project the second half of this year, to go and demonstrate this technology as a what we call a four terminal hybrid tandem module, it's a mouthful, but basically means that it's perovskite coated top glass with a perovskites on the underside, it's laminated in the module, and electrically connected in parallel to the crystal and silicon cells. And so we can do that for a number of reasons. It's passively done, it's that doesn't, you don't need complex electronics, and it's still just two wires coming out of that module. It's not the board's two wires coming out, we make that connection inside the module. And it's very simple for module manufacturers to integrate this. And what they get, ultimately, is a product that has between five to 6%, sometimes six and a half percent improvement in absolute efficiency. So are you producing a 20% module today, it's a 26% module, if you're producing a 22, it's a 28, etc. So that's, that's why it's attractive. And we actually were very conscientious about the cost, right. And so I've been in PV quite a long time as our co founder, as was or CTO. And we know that cost is an incredibly important feature here. And so we price it such that for a module manufacturer, their cost or watts flat, yes, it costs money for this, but the number of watts go up at the same rate that the cost of the module goes up. So their cost per watt splat, how they choose to price it to the end user, that's up to them. But we know that there for every 1% of efficiency, there was about a two cent difference in market value. And that's because the balance of systems costs. And one thing that's true is that there's really two drivers today, one balance of systems costs are not getting any cheaper. And there's some great technology solutions out there. But we haven't seen mass adoption of them. But they're not getting cheaper civil works are increasing in cost. So balance assistant costs are going up, demand is continuing to go up for solar. And at the same time, we're seeing issues around land use. And we used to talk we used to think that was never going to be a problem. But now it's really becoming an issue that people talk a lot about not in my backyard for large PV. So how do you optimize these oddly shaped plots of land? And when you've got land constraints? Well, you need a very high performance system that doesn't break the bank. And that's what we promise and that's what we deliver to market.

Tim Montague: 9:51

So did I hear you correctly that the perovskite gets embedded in the solar glass that becomes the the that replaces the traditional glass on a glass module? That's correct. Okay. And and is that, is that potentially the same for bifacial that you have? Front and back? Exactly.

Scott Graybeal: 10:14

In fact, we prefer to have glass glass and laminates. One of the challenges with profs guides is they don't like water, and they don't like some oxygen. And so you have to be conscientious about that in the best barrier that that's out there was really a glass back sheet, very complementary to bifacial technology.

Tim Montague: 10:31

All right. And so there's historically the things that I'm no I'm no expert on porowski had solar. But I tried to stay abreast of the technology the things that I've learned, historically, the challenges for profs guides are they tend to be short lived, relatively speaking, right? And they potentially include hazardous materials. So how have you addressed the the lifespan improving the lifespan? Because the solar module has to last for 30 years? Does this does this does the degradation rate of the perovskite piece of the solar? Is it different than the crystalline piece?

Scott Graybeal: 11:10

Yes. And it will be for a little while, we've made some tremendous strides at K Lux and improving the lifetime of perovskites. In fact, I think we've got some best in class results. So we're not very far off our commercialization target for the large format devices. So but there is a difference in slope, right. So there is a faster degradation of perovskites. Now, if you put this together, in our architecture, this hybrid tandem architecture, you can still have a faster degradation of the perovskite. But in combination with the silicon, it will still have more power at the end of 25 or 30 years than it would without the perovskite layer. And so it may change, let's say that slow degradation, but you're starting off with a much higher power. And it's gonna be up to the module manufacturer about how they want to convey that to the market, do they want to derail? Do they just want to take credit for that? And I think ultimately, they're going to take credit for it. But you know, we, because of that, if you're able to marry the two technologies together, that gives you a faster on ramp time for perovskites? Because that's a pretty compelling value proposition. It's like, yeah, maybe the slopes a little different. But I'm still gonna have more power than what I had, if I just had a crystal and silicon module alone. And that year 25, that year 30. And developers recognize that they go, Yep, absolutely. And they're there. They understand that completely. Now as perovskites get more mature, and we start seeing 2530 year lifetimes with perovskites, then standalone perovskite, modules start looking pretty interesting, because it's a lot cheaper, right? I mean, the cost of a perovskite absorber is, you know, going to be half that of a crystalline silicon cell, if not, more so, over time. And so, as one of my colleagues, not Caelux, but one of my colleagues in the industry likes to say the absorber is virtually free. And there's a lot to be said for that at scale. You know, and from our standpoint, we've already hit our cost targets this year for direct materials. And at a gigawatt scale. That's it's a, it's a simple thing for us to solve for. We've already got quotes and prices in in house that we know exactly where we're going to be.

Tim Montague: 13:19

And what about lead in the profs guide? Is, is do you have to use lead? Or are there alternatives to using lead in the profs guide?

Scott Graybeal: 13:28

Well, unfortunately, mankind has found lead to have some fantastic properties that we just can't get around. You know, it's a big fuzzy atom that just has lots of electrons. And because of that, it tends to lend itself to some pretty interesting geometries. And so it is very, very useful. Now the amount of lead that's used in a in a profs guide cells, a fraction of that was already in a crystalline silicon module, even when you account for the difference in solubility. And so as our CTO likes to say, is that you could take a perovskite module and drop it face down for our sky in the dirt and the amount of lead that will leach out won't go above the background amount of lead. And so it's a very small amount of lead. Now, not withstanding that, we know that some folks are very sensitive to this. And so one of the things we do with our product is that we have traceability, so every one of our glasses or active glasses, go out with a QR code on it. So they're completely traceable, so we can go cradle to grave with it. And these are simpler to recycle than you'd imagine, right? It's a fairly straightforward process to recycle that perovskite material. So it's effectively you know, mild surfactants and, and hot water, that can really help you reclaim that material. And so we do definitely see a cradle to cradle approach in a circular supply chain that can be enabled. But that's much easier than traditional solar. So I but I think that so long as we kind of have that right stewardship around the management of the devices and have that approach where we can trace things over time, but also recognize that we're talking about a very, very small amount of lead. There's, let's say, again, here's here's a way to visualize it, too, is that the amount of lead record for solubility, the amount of lead that's using the automotive industry, if that was converted into in one year, if that was changed into perovskite panels, that would be like 2.5 terawatts, which would be enough modules to go back and forth to the moon 11 times. So that's a significant thing to kind of push this scale the issue and not too many people are freaking out about the fact that they've got a lead acid battery or two or three in their garage right now. Yeah, and even if you're driving Evie, you still have a lead acid battery that's powering all your loads, right?

Tim Montague: 15:45

Yeah And the key there is circularity. You see this with First Solar Of course, right? They they have a cradle to cradle approach. And that really has worked for them. They use cadmium telluride technology, right cadmium is, is a heavy metal in the same class as lead. totally doable. And so I think, you know, I think you're answering that objection pretty well. I have to say, the Clean Power Hour is brought to you by CPS America. The maker of North America's number one three phase string inverter with over six gigawatts shipped in the US. The CPS America product lineup includes three phase string inverters ranging from 25 to 275 kW, their flagship inverter, the CPS, 250 to 75 is designed to work with solar plants ranging from two megawatts to two gigawatts, the 250 to 75. pairs well, with CPS America's exceptional data communication controls and energy storage solutions, go to chintpowersystems.com To find out more. So what is the status of the company? You're a venture backed company? How many employees do you have? And what is the, you know, what is the go to market strategy? Yeah,

Scott Graybeal: 16:53

so we have 72 employees a day, we have an office in Taiwan, and we have our operations in Baldwin Park, which is a suburb of Los Angeles, about 15 miles northeast of Downtown LA, that's where we have our 50 megawatt demonstration line. And we'll be scaling that up this year, as well. So we are in the process of raising a series B. And so we are insiders are participating, as well as some great companies and great firms coming in as well to participate. And the intent for that will be to take us to our gigawatt scale plant. And so that's we're looking at for our next expansion, and location, TBD. Right. And that's going to be a function largely of the strategy that we have. And our strategy is to work with module manufacturers. Our perspective was, look, it's tough for a startup company to have credibility when you're dealing with these large project developers. And they're the ones that have the most volume. So we have to work with the best PV manufacturers in the world to commercialize the technology. And so we have three of the top five manufacturers in the world are currently in demonstration in qualification phase for our product, as well as another nine others that are more regional players that are in key regions for us. And so the way we approach it is that our intent is to go build sites that are regionally specific. So we'll have a site in Southeast Asia, a site in India, a site in the United States, and maybe a site in the EU somewhere, right. And that will that will enable us to reach out and touch all the PV module manufacturers, and that we can support them geographically. And so our model is that we consign glass from customers, we coat the glass, and then we ship it to their module manufacturing facility, and with our site in Los Angeles, and our next expansions are likely going to be in the southwest United States. And we have customers that will be have operations there too. And so you know, as that glass comes in likely to be imported, comes in the Port of Los Angeles pitstop at our site, first, we coat it, and then we send it on its way to our customers. And we can sign glass because well, we're a startup company, we don't want the working capital impairment of having to buy glass and habits sitting on the shelf. And plus, our customers have tight relationships with glass manufacturers and frankly, can get better pricing for glass than we can. And so our business is largely about the transformation of that glass substrate into this Caelux active glass that can then be incorporated in the module. Let's

Tim Montague: 19:15

take a quick side branch and talk about solar glass. Because, you know, with with the inflation reduction acts, there's a 10% matter for domestically made products. But in the US, we don't make solar glass today. Now, I don't know what percent of the price of a solar module that is. But it's something that it would be nice if we could do but where is solar glass made today? And where are you going to be getting your solar glass,

Scott Graybeal: 19:44

the bulk of it, frankly, is in China. And it has been for quite some time. Now the type of glass that we need. The type of glass that the thin film needs is different than we used to it was typical solar, front glass, the typical sort of front class what's called textured glass or rolled glass. And it's a little bit different. And because it's rolled, it doesn't have the flatness that you need when you're doing thin film processes. And that's something that will be overcome with time, you know, we fully intend that we will eventually be able to do that, right. But as it stands today, we prefer full of glass. And so you don't see a lot of low iron flow glass, you don't see a lot of low iron textured glass either. And so there are companies that are in the space. There are some manufacturers that are coming to the United States. So they're fulfilling the needs of some of the folks that you're already touched on. Almost dedicated to their operations, right because they can write a big check and they can lock in these long term offtake agreements. So many of our customers, though, for the US operations, they're likely going to be importing glass. And and it's either going to be Southeast Asia where there are some operations, or it's going to be from places like China, and even inclusive of any sort of tariff implications. And I'm not 100% on the tariff, I think it's 25%. For solar glass, not even though I'm getting interviewed, don't quote me on that. But even in consideration that the cost is much lower than we could see in the US, unfortunately, it just is, yeah, you know, it's roughly half the cost. And so that's something that I think that the US manufacturers need to get their head around. And this is why we also from an advocacy standpoint, are pushing for kind of an extension, IRA to include dimensions of the supply chain, we feel that that's important. Because, you know, yes, we can have all this great, let's say, primary product, or secondary product manufacturing, but we need the primary products to actually be cost competitive, too. And so how do we get there? Right, and I think that is going to take some help. I

Tim Montague: 21:41

Googled this question now about class and for solar, and it does look like they are partnering with a company that is building a factory, a glass factory, a float glass factory in Ohio.

Scott Graybeal: 21:53

Yeah. And somebody I think, in the Carolinas, if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, there's definitely they got the skill to do it.

Tim Montague: 21:59

Yeah. So you're, you're in the you're in the pilot phase, that you said, you have a line for 50 megawatts a year. And module manufacturers are testing the product. So they're, they're buying just sheets of perovskite glass from you, or what, what exactly are they buying from Caelux. They're buying what we

Scott Graybeal: 22:23

call the act of glass. And so that is that process, Guy coated top glass that also has a capping layer, so that we can ship it safely to their sites. And that's we've already started shipments, and that's really going to ramp up this summer. And so that's when the bulk of this testing work is going to continue. So we've got some early customers that we've been sending product to, and they're evaluating in different parameters. And we're qualifying the product on this line. And this is I would really call it a demonstration line or pilot was really when we were working with smaller substrate sizes. And so this is our demo line, really to prove the concept, prove the price points, prove the performance, and then really set the stage for a larger scale deployment, right, this gigawatt scale plus? And so yeah, that's what we're shipping to them. And so they're going through various tests themselves, right, some of the keeping close to the chest, some of it that they're freely sharing, but you know, they're in will be laminating this glass into their module architecture, we've worked with them on Hey, what's your module look like? What do we need to do to make our glass actually fit your module configuration, and it does change depends where they put junction boxes, it depends on the array of the cells, but we've got flexibility, and we can work with them on that. So our size is about 2.1 square meters, now the industry is going to larger glass sizes. And so that will be our next expansion will be about these larger glass sizes. But for the most part, you know, this, we're able to get this first rung of qualification and sales done at that form factor. Cool. Kevin aside sold out for the first like 18 months. So we're pretty excited about that. We just need to get through qualification.

Tim Montague: 24:04

And when do you foresee achieving some level of sustainability in terms of cash flow, you know, becoming cash positive? What does that runway look like for you all?

Scott Graybeal: 24:16

Yeah, 27. And then that's because we do have models that you know, we do need to invest. And we are working with various structuring options and how we bring capital in for capex, etc. But 27 will be in a great spot.

Tim Montague: 24:30

And at that time, how big will the company be in? What What will your production be?

Scott Graybeal: 24:37

Yeah, we'll have over a gigawatt of production by that point.

Tim Montague: 24:39

Okay. Well, I don't know what I don't know, Scott. So what else should we know about Caelux? I'm just thrilled to have you on the show and let our listeners know about this and potential investors. What is the what is the call to action for potential investors? What is it that you're looking for?

Scott Graybeal: 25:00

Yeah, I think we need quality investors to support the vision of really transforming the solar industry. And in there's got to be, I think, a broad recognition that solar needs to evolve. I think some have sort of dismissed solar to say, Oh, it's fine the way it is. The reality is, our developer partners are telling us the exact opposite. They're telling us they want more powerful solar that cost less, because they want to begin to really take advantage of the market dynamics as they're laid out today. And that's dealing with land constraint. And it's dealing with rising BLS costs, and we are the solution to that. And so I think that with a recognition of that that begins to narrow the field quite a bit. And I think this is a company that has done a good job in retiring risk. And as it's continued to evolve, and this demonstration live is largest of its kind in the Western world, and we're well positioned to go and intercept this evolving industry. By 2040, more than 80% of all PV shipments are going to be perovskites. In fact, that's a, that's a pretty low estimate. And with that, you know, this is the frontier of a huge transformation. And because of the degree of automation, and because of the degree of what how far we can drive direct materials costs, this is not just a China only game and, you know, we can often date and really take many of these factors that informed China's success in PvE to Dotto and reset that paradigm. So now we've got the ability to have a handful of people running a gigawatt production facility, because it's an automated inline production asset, we have the ability to really drive down direct materials costs, because there's no exotic materials we need to work with. And so given that some of those fundamental dynamics, it does create a new opportunity and PB three Dotto looks very different than PV to data. And so now's the time to really look at quality companies like calyx and say, Hey, that makes sense. That interest that that's a company has learned the lessons of PV to Dotto, and we have that experience ingrained in us. So we feel that we've got the ability to really fighting the wind on the stage.

Tim Montague: 27:11

Are there other companies doing what calyx is doing in the United States? Well,

Scott Graybeal: 27:16

I can't speak to specifically how they're doing it, I would say some are attempting to do so. And we've got some pretty solid IP is around our foundations, we feel like we built a pretty deep moat around the most cost effective approach to producing crosscut on glass. So, you know, maybe they're happy to have them go about it differently than we do. wish them luck. Because I think this whole industry, really, there's a lot of opportunity for everyone. So let's let's get after it. Sure. You know, we're, we're excited about our relative position here, we feel that we're pretty far ahead of the game. And we're looking forward to just the next couple of years to really scale this. You

Tim Montague: 27:57

said, I just want to revisit the prediction you're making about market uptake of this technology, you said 35, or 45%? By 2035? Or what is that statistic?

Scott Graybeal: 28:09

Oh, it's 80% by 2040. And that's not my number that's rethink energy research. And they probably do some of the best work, I think, in the industry, when it comes to looking at the prospect market, they talk to everybody they talk to us, they really have their finger on the pulse. And they're looking at the cost curves, they're taking a very bottoms up view, as well as a top down perspective and synthesizing the two and coming up with what I think is a pretty compelling argument around the uptake of this technology, they're seeing the pace of improvement, they're seeing the innovative companies that are coming out with approaches and go to market strategies that synergize with the industry like ours approach, you know, not trying to fight it, trying to complement it. And that supports this uptake approach. And so their view is like, look, the cost is going to come down so far, the performance is definitely going to improve, we have different tools available to us now than we did in PV to Dotto AI is playing a role, even for a little company like us, you know, AI does play a role in our development. And so that's enabling faster cycles of learning. And that's what really is helping to unlock the potential of this industry. And because of that, you know, it's a substantial market, and we view it from our standpoint alone, our addressable markets, about $200 billion through 2030, from today through 2030. And that's just based upon new module sales. And that's a substantial market for anybody. Right. So I think given that, you know, that there, it's pretty attractive as well, as you know, this longer term play beyond 2030. We're really seeing mass adoption.

Tim Montague: 29:45

Yeah, yeah, no doubt, it's a huge economic opportunity. And that is a that is an eye popping statistic 80% by 2040, I gonna have to dig deeper into that research. That's very, very intriguing. Well, Scott, in our last couple of minutes together, what else should people know about Caelux? And, and, you know, how can people find you?

Scott Graybeal: 30:11

No problem. So I think the one thing people should know is the perovskites are sooner than everybody thinks here in the US, it's going to happen. And that would be my one thing. I want people to understand that this is the technology of the future. And it's not that far off. It's not like other technologies, where it's always 10 years away. This is technology that is literally around the corner. And so with that, this is a great opportunity to get on board with companies like Caelux, now how they can find us so we're done. www.caelux.com But see caelux.com. And of course, I'm on LinkedIn just Scott Graybeal. Awesome.

Tim Montague: 30:48

Well check out all of our content at cleanpowerhour.com Give us a rating and review on Apple and Spotify. Reach out to me, I love hearing from my listeners on LinkedIn or at cleanpowerhour.com And telephoned about the show that is the best thing you can do to help us be the energy transition. I want to thank Scott Graybeal, CEO of Caelux, for coming on the show today. Thank you so much.

Scott Graybeal: 31:10

Thank you very much, Tim was a pleasure.

Tim Montague: 31:12

Let's grow solar and storage on Tim Montague. Hey, listeners, this is Tim, I want to give a shout out to all of you. I do this for you twice a week. Thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us your time. I really appreciate you and what you're all about. You are part and parcel of the energy transition, whether you're an energy professional today, or an aspiring energy professional. So thank you, I want to let you know that the Clean Power Hour has launched a listener survey. And it would mean so much to me. If you would go to cleanpowerhour.com. Click on the About Us link right there on the main navigation that takes you to the about page. And you'll see a big graphic listener survey, just click on that graphic and it takes just a couple of minutes. If you fill out the survey, I will send you a lovely baseball cap with our logo on it. The other thing I want our listeners to know is that this podcast is made possible by corporate sponsors. We have chin power systems, the leading three phase string inverter manufacturer in North America. So check out CBS America. But we are very actively looking for additional support to make this show work. And you see here our media kit. With all the sponsor benefits and statistics about the show. You know we're dropping two episodes a week. We have now over 320,000 downloads on YouTube. And we're getting about 45,000 downloads per month. So this is a great way to bring your brand to our listeners and our listeners our decision makers in clean energy. This includes projects executives, engineers, finance, project management, and many other professionals who are making decisions about and developing, designing, installing and making possible clean energy projects. So check out cleanpowerhour.com both our listener survey on the about us and our media kit and become a sponsor today. Thank you so much. Let's go solar and storage